unban me, please

[ST2]

well,
my name ingame: ST2 (or xT2 when offline in IRC;
Banned by: alex879ro;
reason for ban: stated as "provocation" - after using quotes of his own words!
why should I be unbanned on IRC?! : Could explain better but all happenings there and posted here would be called "what's that crap?!"
Anyway... n-ice team choice

Edit: well, it's a n-ice IRC server... and I'm sorry for telling truths there about "some person" that made me get banned...

[YorVeX]

i wasn't there when this happened but checking the log i see a normal conversation about various things not related to OpenTTD between alex and arcanoid which is at some point frequently interrupted by you with completely unrelated things like
- pointing out how alex would be incompetent because he asks to fix things instead of doing things like making Aphid's script work (like you do)
- sarcastically stating that apparently alex would be too cool to join our QuakeNet channel, because you can't see him there (where none of the other OpenTTD admins beside you, Der_Herr and me is, so who cares for that anyway?)
- throwing in a random quote from alex where he says he is not admin (which obviously does not make sense if taken out original of context like this)

and after the ban on the IRC channel you joined a game server and when asked you say why: to get banned there and to report it. what a weird attitude is this?

and even when during the conversation you are mostly ignored except for a few "please stop it" type of responses you continue that stuff. how's that not provocation? afterwards you even boldly call it "truths". i'd rather call it trolling, which consequentially results in a ban.

one more observation: all these bad things only happen at night (when you are at or return from the pub?). but no interpretations from my side here, just what i see.

however, all this was not enough for you: some hours later you change the wiki page about the n-ice client to state how alex would be its new maintainer. when neither is alex a developer nor would it make any sense to give him this task (you could have picked any other random person). also: how is all this related to you providing a service to an OpenTTD community or not? why do you let others suffer (by not providing the client anymore) for your personal little vendetta?
and to give the story an even more embarrassing end you thought you would have to bring it to the public forum. well, you got your attention now.

so much for a quick report of what i saw happening so far. it's not truths, just my observations, so you get a reflection how your behavior is seen by others (and someone else might have a different view, but the uncut log is up there for everyone to make his own opinion).
i couldn't say that i actually understand anything of what has happened there. the only thing i know is that this is really where i stop putting time into this, as this community is enough hard work without such negativity, we really don't need this kind of destructive activity. if you hate him so much: stay away from him. if you somehow transfer this hate on the whole n-ice community: stay away from it.



oh well, i guess this was my first harsh response to these occurrences in public and i doubt that any good will come out of this, but i also couldn't have left it unanswered. at this point i want to use a quote from the conversation this is all about:
<alex879ro> i`m actually enjoying this conversation so please don`t start your usual show

when the old ST2 we knew and loved left us it was already a loss for our community. now one more sad thing is that apparently i have to stop my work on the new score system (which would give XP quarterly and can work on CityBuilder servers) to learn how to maintain the patched client, which will also cost extra efforts for every new release in the future. and that's by no means alex' fault. it's yours. your decision, your action. and you punish us all for your low personal motives.

maybe we are lucky and someone with C/C++ skills who wants to help reads this? please contact me...

[ST2]

well, for sure it is noteworthy the 2 chat levels:
1: when I'm trying to give some help (because person in question got some blanks (lets call it like this now));
2: when the help it's not needed;
Between this 2 steps things escalated for obvious reasons, already stated and shown, but ignored! Basicaly, someone that do NOT respect rules enforced with/to other players gets immunity. Other players got permanent ban for less (includes banned by him for similar situations)! After that, why not being sarcastic, meanwhile confused with "trolling". Never was and never will be my intention of trolling n-ice community.
Btw, what I expect from an OpenTTD admin (or Operator, not Admin - because 2nd one is too mainstream (intentional irony, sarcasm or whatever)), is at least knowing where binary version configuration is saved and where xShunter gets that info (dedicated servers with multi cfg files are tricky here when updating, but solution is simple).
When I use "incompetent" word it's because " i` m a bit rusty with xShunter`s error" when we all know that being rusty (smutty) is a natural state (even at this time).
The Quakenet answer/words... pretty wimple to understand: http://www.n-ice.org/openttd/contact.php at bottom, why players can't find Admins there (Operators or whatever)?

Side note: I wasn't returning from the pub, but nothing that matters for the case.

About the quote, the proof that's not random and was applied on the right moment, with the obvious words I used after, it's on the ban appeared immediately after. That showed the fear in the words the words he used. I know respect people who give respect, not those who consider themselves superior. And that happened many times! (lucky players that dnt see chats)!

Now sincerely xOR, I don't see the need of you leave to stop work on the new score system! And for that I've changed the Wiki: person that don't know/understand OpenTTD mechanics and/or his cfg files, don't respect rules enforced, rusty on xShunter errors and so on... For sure can easily do the public version developments/upgrades. Unless NEITHER that he can do properly! And I ask... Why? Answer is simple: play until get full powers and server access, then you can go on and play other games (despite the fact that not respecting rules on this one, more then that are only speculations, but confirmable by the people around).
Even yesterday when I've spotted a bug (major) in watch window (player) answer was: "they were bugged since 1.2.3...". I've said " thank you for the reports..." (ironically, ofc). Only now found it and fixed it. From here all you can discover my will of continue my work.

To Finish, I have only more 4 points to say:
- At least now players know who's making latest server changes (like "cfg file, what is that?... Don't worry, I'm Admin... sorry, Operator") ^^;
- Rules because I've quited admin team (lets keep this version) wasn't changed, isn't respected... unless someone complains! And who complains because of a SIMPLE rule... can get banned (happened couple times);
- You can accept an Admin (damn!!!..., Operator - I always keep forgetting this ^^) that don't respect server rules (but enforce them), same as I can accept any kind of ban here;
- That's why I'll accept future bans (with all the respect that I have for xOR's work and probably he knows what was my efforts for n-ice team- without the need of "titles");

Players know now and others will know later. Give them time!! Movie quote, the difference is there!
But sometimes Admins (grrrr, Operators) think that ST2 is sleeping...
(anyway, even without screenshots, post is big enough ^^)

Good games to all OpenTTD players

[YorVeX]

well, for sure it is noteworthy the 2 chat levels:
1: when I'm trying to give some help (because person in question got some blanks (lets call it like this now));
2: when the help it's not needed;
Between this 2 steps things escalated for obvious reasons, already stated and shown, but ignored! Basicaly, someone that do NOT respect rules enforced with/to other players gets immunity. Other players got permanent ban for less (includes banned by him for similar situations)!

i checked the current ban list and the ban reason texts basically point to these things:
1. making a vehicle crash train
2. active blocking of other players (with a stopped train on a road or with reserved land in front of where someone else was building)
3. insulting other players and admins
when this is "less" i can't see what alex has done that would be "more" than what is in the above list.

After that, why not being sarcastic, meanwhile confused with "trolling". Never was and never will be my intention of trolling n-ice community.

i believe you that it is not your intention but repeatedly interrupting normal conversations to offend someone is nothing else. or if you don't like the wording call it whatever you want, still needs a ban to stop the person that does this. even more so when it's not the first time it happens and seems you will never stop.

Btw, what I expect from an OpenTTD admin (or Operator, not Admin - because 2nd one is too mainstream (intentional irony, sarcasm or whatever)), is at least knowing where binary version configuration is saved and where xShunter gets that info (dedicated servers with multi cfg files are tricky here when updating, but solution is simple).

that's your opinion, not a reason to offend someone on the chat. are you going to everyone not doing what you expect from his role and call him incompetent now?

When I use "incompetent" word it's because " i` m a bit rusty with xShunter`s error" when we all know that being rusty (smutty) is a natural state (even at this time).

i don't understand what you mean and i still don't see any explanation why you came up with this offense (and it's nothing else, nobody wants to be called incompetent). and i might add that even i as the developer of xShunter, when asked, did not know this error well enough to know the solution (that's why i have it on my list to check it on the weekend.). i have a shade of memory that i have seen it in the past but i don't remember the details. could as well call myself "rusty" about it, even if that makes me incompetent in your eyes.

The Quakenet answer/words... pretty wimple to understand: http://www.n-ice.org/openttd/contact.php at bottom, why players can't find Admins there (Operators or whatever)?

how's that alex' fault? if anything it would be my duty to find a solution (i actually planned to offer a real chat client instead of all the webchats but so far never got around to, maybe should simply remove the QuakeNet chat anyway). again, no reason to offend especially him about it, out ouf all people that are not in this IRC.

About the quote, the proof that's not random and was applied on the right moment, with the obvious words I used after, it's on the ban appeared immediately after. That showed the fear in the words the words he used. I know respect people who give respect, not those who consider themselves superior. And that happened many times! (lucky players that dnt see chats)!

i explained why i think the ban was justified, it was necessary to stop the attacks you would have never stopped yourself - as you clearly show here too.

Now sincerely xOR, I don't see the need of you leave to stop work on the new score system! And for that I've changed the Wiki: person that don't know/understand OpenTTD mechanics and/or his cfg files, don't respect rules enforced, rusty on xShunter errors and so on... For sure can easily do the public version developments/upgrades.

doesn't make sense.

Unless NEITHER that he can do properly! And I ask... Why? Answer is simple: play until get full powers and server access, then you can go on and play other games (despite the fact that not respecting rules on this one, more then that are only speculations, but confirmable by the people around).

i don't understand what you are trying to say. maybe you can rephrase it?

Even yesterday when I've spotted a bug (major) in watch window (player) answer was: "they were bugged since 1.2.3...". I've said " thank you for the reports..." (ironically, ofc).

you constantly say he should maintain the client. how does that fit you expecting him to give you bug reports about it now? would have probably gotten him a reply like "fix it yourself" and hints that he is incompetent so i can very well imagine that you would not be the first person he had in mind to report a bug to.
and remember you excluded him from even getting the admin version that has the watch window? it's a bit weird to expect bug reports from him for a client you refuse him to get.

Only now found it and fixed it. From here all you can discover my will of continue my work.

no i can't. i shouldn't be supposed to "discover" anything at all. you changed the official page to get our client from to say that alex will do it and that's your statement, in an official place. here is the mail i got from the wiki about your change.
clearly says you won't do it anymore. and even if you change your mind about it the 20th time now, you are a too unreliable candidate about this. nobody knows for what personal reasons you will tell us tomorrow you won't do it anymore. also it seems a lot like you abuse your client for "listen to my complaints about alex or i won't do the client anymore" and this is not the type of discussion i will participate in.
for sure you will continue to fix bugs and enhance the client, but that will rather be to the benefit of the BTPro client. i just hope for the sake of Frank that you won't start playing such games with them too in the future if you don't agree with one of their admins or decisions.

To Finish, I have only more 4 points to say:
- At least now players know who's making latest server changes (like "cfg file, what is that?... Don't worry, I'm Admin... sorry, Operator") ^^;
- Rules because I've quited admin team (lets keep this version) wasn't changed, isn't respected... unless someone complains! And who complains because of a SIMPLE rule... can get banned (happened couple times);
- You can accept an Admin (damn!!!..., Operator - I always keep forgetting this ^^) that don't respect server rules (but enforce them), same as I can accept any kind of ban here;
- That's why I'll accept future bans (with all the respect that I have for xOR's work and probably he knows what was my efforts for n-ice team- without the need of "titles");

mixture of random rants, i don't see any reason to really respond to them bit by bit. essence seems to be that you don't like alex saying "i am not an admin but an operator". i must admit that i don't understand his quote either (it's not my understanding that taking additional operator duties would mean giving away normal admin duties), but on the other hand we have no guidelines about those roles, so it's open to interpretation. you don't like his interpretation? fine, we got it. now calm down and stop mentioning it at every occasion and creating an offense out of it.

it seems a bit like you are just pissed HE was given those extra privileges and not you. fun fact: i would have given it to you too at that time, it's just that alex very consistently kept on asking me (he waited for MONTHS!) and when i finally had some time to do a training on this it was obviously him i remembered to be very ambitious about it.
can't say i have ever regretted that decision regarding his help with the servers. he basically kept them operational alone, in a time where they crashed and had bugs constantly and i was not online to help him for 2 months.

and now every day you do your weird actions and show offensive/aggressive behavior you prove a bit more i made a good decision and i am a bit more glad that it's not you who has the sensitive access to the machine.

[ST2]

I won't reply on each sentence.
Time will say who is unreliable. The 1st quote reply was enough to see how fruitless are/were my words/screenshots about things that happened.
And what really pisses me off is when someone thinks himself superior to others trampling who's around to get more rights and permissions (already admitted that it was his aim).
Whatever permissions I had, have or will get in ttd servers will NEVER compromise their normal operation, the same personal integrity that makes me get angry with some actions.
Of course, all this words is my opinion but at least I'm not "painting" anyone capable of destruction when gets mad. But I can't say the same on the other way (speculating only).
I'm human but I'm not a fake person (note: I am not accusing anyone). Thanks for all and excuse me for bothering with my opinions