Sabotaging on CB server (its getting really common and annoying)

[Zorz]

Hello,

Long time OpenTTD player and great CB fan. In the last month or so I've started to play CB frequently on your server... Its fun, at least it was fun until secondary resource stealing became so common that it happened in every other game. If I'm not the victim, someone else is - usually the player who has the biggest town and is closest to win.

I'm very well aware of the rules of the server, and realize that competition is allowed. But, the resource stealing that I'm talking about can constitute to any reasonable person as sabotage.  These bad players are abusing "competition allowed" rule by stealing secondary resources (food and goods) usually form winning players and transporting them to closest city - usually in the screen distance. They make very little money with this, they don't take it to their claimed town. They  just do it to harm players who are doing well and are close to a win.
Also, some go far as they forget about their own town for the last 30-60 minutes of the game, they make it their sole purpose to sabotage others. So sometimes, some third ranking player wins because the first was sabotaged by second.
What stunned me is that admins don't even come close to doing anything about this... Even when they are mocked by these players.

Last game we had was one of the best games me and my friend had. Until some ******* started to steal every possible secondary resource we made. From that point on our job was to protect factories and stations within the scope of the rules. Funding industries in (our) town area, building long entry and exit queues that go around the factory/industry, which to an honest player like me seems like "cheating" the rules. I like competition servers, but this is ridicules.
People spend more time sabotaging and defending from it than having fun by building complex transportation networks, which this game is all about.

I honestly hope that you consider changing the rules in any direction that would prevent or at least curb this kind of behavior. Otherwise, you are gonna start loosing good players that respect the rules.

Picture is worth a thousand words. I've linked to (big) screenshots from the last game.
On the fourth picture he admits that he is actually doing it on purpose because we are too fast/good/and were more of us.













Edit: grammer

[alex879ro]

Hello Zorz

Even tho our rules say that Stealing is Allowed, in your case, you are right. Cases of sabotage are hard to demonstrate but in this case, it clearly is sabotage. No need to change any of the rules, because there are actually rules about this kind of behaviour. Even the last rule clearly states that "Even if you do not break the rules, but still upset and anger players, you can be banned" We will notify all admins for such situations to be prevented.

Competition is encouraged....but competition for profit. Taking the goods obtained from competition to the nearest possible place is actually sabotage, and sabotage is forbidden. We are terribly sorry for what has happened.

Also, from what I see, in his desperation, the persone who sabotaged made another rule break : Multiple Stations / 1 industry  , which is also forbidden.

[Zorz]

Taking the goods obtained from competition to the nearest possible place is actually sabotage, and sabotage is forbidden.

Thank you for being reasonable and understanding 

[YorVeX]

agree with alex, it's covered by rule 3: "Don't build stations or station parts that serve the sole purpose of [...] sabotaging other players [...]."

we will try to sensitize other admins about this too, these kinds of cases seem to occur more often these days. in the past it hasn't happened that often, so not all admins are trained on this yet. especially Taroon who is still quite new and was a bit unsure about it. next time he'll know, we all learn and improve every day.

[Zorz]

especially Taroon who is still quite new and was a bit unsure about it. next time he'll know, we all learn and improve every day.

Of course, I figured something like that. Later when i calmed down. 
Taroon was compassionate, probably just didn't want to overstep his authority.

Kudos to him and all the staff I've encountered so far on n-ice. Everyone was very professional! Keep up the good work!

[wahNone]

hi i am sorry if i did break any rules, it happened to me as well before and so i tried to steal to have some more time. in that moment in my opinion it was competition (like the admin said) because its also important to protect your industries. maybe increase the area around the city to be a little bit more safe against that, its probably always possible to steal.
btw what happens if i would have build a track to my city , still sabotage?

the other thing is that you dont have fun if you cant end in 2h 30mins with 2+ players.. i can say if i play alone its not possible to beat that (at least for me) and its not fun , too. yesterday i was very fast alone but still no chance.

[imus]

Taking the food (in this case) to your own city would be fine as it is for your own good. But as said before, there's no clear line between stealing for competition and down right sabotaging.

I only have experience playing on #7. There it's obvious that if you try to "steal" pax from someone else's city, you also limit the profit of those trains and trucks you use to do so. And since you only got 10 trains 20 trucks it really hurts yourself unless if it's still a decent connection.

So on city builder games:

• if you can use the recourse (food, goods,...) to help your own city grow and thus helps you in getting your goal. By all means, try taking it from your opponents as it is a win-win for you.
• If you just take the recourse to make a profit from it, it's vague, I'd say it is fine if a neutral player (someone not involved in either company) can say that it looks like it will make a decent profit.
• If it means slowing down the other player just enough so YOU can WIN yourself, I'd say it is allowed but should be avoided in most cases as it will most likely upset the other player (unless if you are having fun in chat and are competing in such a way so both parties like this kind of competition)

Note, in that last case you should both be competing for first place with not too much difference. for example both around 90% or both around 50% (with other players 40% or less).

If the other player really is faster/better, try figuring out what he did different. And learn from it. You can even ask them for some tips. In my experience everyone that isn't speed-building at that moment wouldn't mind giving you a pointer or two on how to improve your game.

These servers are here to have a fun competition between players. In my opinion it's way more fun to play against players who are equally good. So if I'm not the best, I try to learn from the better players. If I am the best, I try to educate other players so I get my fair competition going. Win-win for everyone

[alex879ro]

Yes, you are right, but you must take into consideration that there is an ECONOMIC purpose of every game. So taking the the goods on a small route is clearly sabotage since it is obvious you are not doing this for money. We had a proposal for a new rule that would impose taking the goods on the same distance as the person you`re competing but for obvious reasons it wasn`t implemented.

Such cases can be handled by our admin team and for the new admins who don`t know it , I advise to call an experienced admin and to ask him to explain